SpinRite 6.0 for Linux Users

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SpinRite? What is a review of a Windows application doing on the Linux Journal Web site?
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Are you guys all thick? Shiel

Anonymous's picture

Are you guys all thick? Shields Up and LeakTest and all the rest were projects with John McAfee to push ZoneAlarm. With over 60 hyperlinks to ZA, hell their own forum and their own rep hanging out in there, with only one link to any other PFW despite numerous mentions - are you guys thick or something?

Re: What a nice advertisement for a shyster*not*

Anonymous's picture

grcsucks site does not appear to be offering software written in assembly that will recover your hard drive.
I have found spinright from grc.com great.
One guy I know has allowed grc to post his testimonial.
Unlike some, i have no web site, i am not promoting my site. I am just a content software user.

You make it sound like writin

Anonymous's picture

You make it sound like writing in assembler is something good. It's not. You can't get a job anywhere in IT writing in assembler. So this guy is so good? Then why has he never but never used anything else? What suckers you are.

Can't get a job for writing in assembler?

Mram's picture

You guys are insane. I program in PERL, vb, PLSQL various batch scripting languages on *nix and Windows. I can also run both *unix and Windows servers and desktops without problems - and yes I even have Windows servers that haven't had to be reboot in 3 years despite the inability of some to do so because they were set up correctly. I a company and make very good money doing everything from coding to server setup/maintenance. Most IT people I know consider me among the best they have ever met and guess what? I envy Steve's skills and wish I had spent 20 years to get to the same level myself. Once you start looking at how familiar he is with the low level workings of a computer you will wish you had those Assembler skills too.

He is the man and a true wizard unlike the script kiddies who post here in between downloading "haxor" tools other people have written. Respect your elders and you might learn something - they were around long before you kiddies could sign on to your AOL accounts to post kleet using words you learned in some awful movie with Angelina Jolie.

PERL?

John Bokma's picture

You probably mean Perl as in the programming language Perl. Someone programming in that language should at least know how to write its name, especially if you're considered to be "among the best".

Assembly is for engineers

Anonymous's picture

Assembly is for engineers - not IT weenies (apologies to IT weenies everywhere). Ever heard of Embedded Programming. That nice Blackberry or Palm Pilot in your pocket. Your cell phone... Where do you think they would be without low-level programming like C and Assembly?

Without assembly, where would your high-level languages be? When you "compile" your code - what do you think happens to it? CPUs run on assembly code - not magic - and certainly not ignorance.

Assembly is alive and well, but not suited to everything

Anonymous's picture

Assembly IS good ... for the right job. For size and speed critical applications it's great, and there are still plenty of people making good livings as assembly language programmers. Have you seen what an experienced BIOS, XROM, or embedded systems programmer commands in terms of salary?

Steve is a creative guy, and he writes great code. Sure he's excentric (if you've been to the old building off Pacific Parkway in Aliso Viejo you know this), but if you've ever worked in high tech (as opposed to being a dockers wearing associate degreed network admin flunky with an attitude, and not enough smarts to know that using the software that someone else wrote doesn't make you their intellectual or technical equal), he doesn't stand out much.

Exactly

Anonymous's picture

I'm pretty much such a flunky (at least started that way) but agree totally. I write gui apps like news readers, windows services and *nix daemons and automate pretty much anything now which puts me above most IT flunkies but I remember my roots and still have a long way to go before I get to the level of these guys.

Re: What a nice advertisement for a shyster

Anonymous's picture

Whatever problem you may have with SpinRite and its producer, kindly refrain from drawing me into it.
You are labeling me the exponent of "cheap advertisement crap."

My review is a description and evaluation of a program I have used since its second release with satisfactory results.

I am not associated with Gibson Research in any way , other than as a user of Spinrite. I receive no compensation from Gibson Research for this report. I paid for the copy of SpinRite 6.0 I reported on.

I review the Linux products (Libranet, WordPerfect) I use.
No one pays me to do so.

Leon A. Goldstein

Right. And Gibson never got a

Anonymous's picture

Right. And Gibson never got a penny from McAfee either.

It's a very honest world we live in.

Fool

0x20's picture

Hello, idiot. McAfee doesn't make ZoneAlarm. McAfee makes McAfee Personal Firewall. So could you explain why McAfee would pay Gibson to pimp a competing product?

Here's my own theory: some people just like to yell about whichever stupid rumors they buy into, because it gives them something to act superior about.

Some people also seem to hate Gibson for his salesmanship skills, which probably surpass his programming skills. Nonetheless,

1. SpinRite works. I've used it since the first version.
2. To suggest that TLJ is also in on your little conspiracy idea is just beyond dumb.
3. Did I say you're an idiot yet? Let me say it again.
4. It's called assembly. The assembler is not the language, it's the program that turns the assembly source into object code. And yes, there are plenty of jobs for assembly programmers - they usually make their own employment - they're just not down there in the same low-level IT / pizza delivery tier that you dwell in.

More Fool You...

Spam Filter's picture

What a twit. Is that 0x20 between your ears? :D

John McAfee's investment of money in Zone Labs is a matter of public record. There's even a press release on the Zonelabs web site announcing it. Or do you consider the company's own press releases to be 'stupid rumors'? LOL!
http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/company/aboutUs/pressroom/pressRel...

Did nobody tell you that John McAfee is no longer associated with the McAfee brand name? Yep, he was forced out years ago. Hmm, guess you aren't as well informed as you thought. ;)

Assembler vs Assembly? Are you going to start correcting spelling errors next? Here, wanna borrow my red pencil?

"SpinRite works. I've used it since the first version."
Well gee, that's convinced me. An anonymous stranger who displays a surprising ignorance of the subject he's discussing, and likes to call people idiots because they disagree with him? Couldn't ask for a better recommendation for a Steve Gibson product!

"To suggest that TLJ is also in on your little conspiracy idea is just beyond dumb."
I agree 100%. Too bad the rest of your remarks are not as sensible.

John McAfee's history of hucksterism and skullduggery is enough to make me question the ethics of Zone Labs right off the bat, but that's a side issue. Gibson and McAfee have been stroking each others' egos for years. Gibson's history of using hyperbole, exaggeration, and techno-babble in his product promotions is remarkably similar to John McAfee's febrile doomsaying over mutating virii, and makes me skeptical of all of his products, including Spinrite. I've seen first-hand how Steve Gibson uses deceptive language on his web site to promote his products. Does that mean he doesn't know how to code? Of course not. But it doesn't make me trust his word either.

Meanwhile, back at the topic...

I've seen a lot of positive comments about Spinrite. Folks say it has found and fixed problems. That's fine, but there are plenty of other programs that do the same thing. What makes Spinrite better? Unfortunately the usual response is "it's too complex, you wouldn't understand."

Curiously, I've never heard that from anyone who actually DOES understand. They've all been told it's too complex too, and they just pass this along like those religious tracts people hand you in airports.

If it's really over my head, then I want to hear a lucid, independent evaluation of Spinrite's process by an experienced engineer with proven credentials in the field and a demonstrable understanding of both the physics and protocols involved in hard drives. I don't want to hear "Rah Rah" recommendations from someone who writes software that gets installed on hard drives, or someone who knows how to install hard drives, or someone who used to work on an assembly line making the damn things.

What is your issue, Spam Filter?

Anonymous's picture

First of all, I don't like your style. Because, even if your right about all your claims, talking this way is not going to help you.
Second, you claim: "there are plenty of other programs that do the same thing"
Which programs then?

Hahahaha

Haha's picture

You idiot. Go and read the documentation on the site. I found it, understood it, and know WHY SPINRITE is better than any hard drive tool out there. Its written in ASSEMBLY because he couldn't otherwise use his knowledge of hard drive controllers. HE USED TO WRITE SUCH EMBEDDED CODE. ON HARD DRIVES FOR IBM MORON. F$#@ some people are thick, go read and research before you come bad mouthing an EXCEPTIONAL product. Its all there in the documentation. The secret to recovering data is by amassing many samples of an incomplete sector structure (from hitting the sector at different speeds and angles). With enough samples, even a nearly completely destroyed sector can be predicted. Its complex maths, executed brilliantly, in the HEART of a hard drive. Its freaking brilliant, and until you use it you dont really know. Understanding the documentation, I HAD to get a copy and did. One day it paid off, bigtime. Its even better than I thought.

I recently had a DEAD hard drive recovered (couldn't use the PC with it as a slave, it brought the whole system to a standstill). It worked for about 4 more months before finally dying. 4 months of free use and knowing that it was going to die soon. Spinrite resurrected it again for a little while and then it appears to have had a spindle/motor failure :D quite amusing because I KNEW it was going to happen.

You on the other hand wouldn't have a clue.

Oh and another thing in the documentation is that it makes hard drives BETTER than they were. This is true, your drive works better because each and every sector is.. to make things simpler for your feeble mind, CALIBRATED to give a perfect 1 or 0 signal. Not a weaker read, strong every time. It also can test if a sector is capable of this, then update the SMART data to mark BAD SECTORS AS GOOD. Fixes them, tests them and then tells the drive hey sorry you're wrong buddy. LOVE IT. HATE DICKHEADS ON THE INTERNET.

...notes from the airport

Anonymous's picture

OK, it boinks the head around until it finds a readable edge.

The magnetic flux may have been degraded, but at some area within, around, or near the damaged media surface area the flux level may still be discernable. Usually a little off the track.

Try reading Peter Guttman's "Secure Deletion of Magnetic Media" to get a good intro to what's going on at the atomic level (edge effects). Then warm up your side scanning electron microscope.

I think you get variable boinking by starting a seek at various distances away from the desired track. And then doing it many times while varying those distances. You'll get varying bounce and vibration, remember, we're talking nanometers here.

Then, voila, data recovery.

By the way, what are the competing products?
Can comparison tests be done?

(BTW, McAfee products still don't work.)

competing products?

Anonymous's picture

> By the way, what are the competing products?
> Can comparison tests be done?

Here's the one I heard of:
hdd regenerator
http://www.dposoft.net/#b_hddhid

HDD Regenerator does NOT recover failed sector data.

Anonymous's picture

HDD Regenerator does NOT recover or even attempt to recover any data from failed sectors but simply forces a drive controller re-map an already failed sector address to one of the spare sectors so the next access to that LBA sector transparently maps to the new physical sector.

In fact in most cases one can use scandisk to identify which files are affected by bad sectors and where possible obtain clean originals to restore from afterwards and simply delete all the damaged files so that the bad sectors reside in free space on the drive, then use any of those windows based free space wiping tools to forcably write to all the sectors as fast as possible. That alone will perform everything HDD Regenerator will do and do it within windows using UDMA speeds too!

None of this is comparable to what SpinRite is designed to do.

I have yet to find any software other than SpinRite that will attempt to and in many cases recover every byte of a cluster that contains a failed sector. The best the others do is recover the surrounding sectors in the cluster by replacing the bad sector with a blank fresh remapped one.
TK

Physical Level Mythology

amatot's picture

Many claim the answers are in the ATA/ATAPI spec; others claim this guy sells snake oil and even more claim this guy is practically god!

Let's make one thing perfectly clear, guys, no software package on earth is going to get down to the physical format of the drive - this is left up to the mfg's factory diagnostics. The physical domain, so to speak, stops at the drives controller chip/firmware and is far from being reached by the outside - logical domain of DOS or any other OS.

Stop dreaming guys, stop wishing for a savior; go out and invest in Raid 1 setups and backup your system at logical points in time - then just get on with living life and stop with the nonsense. If you don't believe it - get a job at a hard drive company and see for yourself.

Get on it!

However...

Anonymous's picture

SpinRite gets as close to the physical media as it is possible to get - the level of raw device access.

In reviving weak clusters, it uses clever manipulation of write operations to slowly build a more definite 'value', working to align the physical cluster with the precise location the drive will try to read each bit from.

This isn't new technology though - the old DOS based Norton's Utilities (when they were actually written by Norton himself), and other tools also provided some similar functionality - and many BIOS' of yore supported drive optimization. The difference with SpinRite is that it does it non-destructively - which means it can be run on a drive that has already been formatted and used. In addition, SpinRite 6.0 works hand-in-glove with the SMART capability of modern drives, keeping the internal tables synchronized with any changes made - an important improvement.

RAID-1 is not the be-all and end-all of data redundancy. Even RAID'ed drives require maintenance, and suffer failure. In fact, I'd recommend running SpinRite on each RAID drive regularly, which will keep them in prime condition - helping to ensure your data integrity and improving speed of operation.

Physical Level Mythology

Anonymous's picture

Further more, check out Seagate drives...

Ever wonder why there are extra pins located near the master/slave jumper positions? Better yet, Seagate SATA drives have 4 pins independant of the SATA interface and SATA power connectors, have you ever seen these?

Whalla!

Serial port.

The only way to remotely get down to the physical layer; where head meets disc! Even then, modern day recording schemes randomize data and play all kinds of tricks to make record density reliable. It's not as simple as just 1 and 0's morons, leading and trailing edges anymore and it hasn't been for years.

Get on it!

Re Spinrite and SATA extra pins

med007's picture

Anonymous,

Does that mean the SATA drives can simply be plug in to a PC via the extra connector? Have you tried that? I was wondering since I'm migrating to SATA drives and I was wondering a) whether Spinrite or HDD Generator supports SATA and how they need to be connected to a PC which I need to buy for this purpose only. Currently I would only want to pretest SATA drives, but I do have one huge problem firewire drive:

I'm trying to recover a Mac drive (actually a LaCie D-2 400GB firewire 800/400USB drive), which actuallt contains two ATA drives. Both internal drives spin, but the drive does not mount!

Any advice would be great!

Sure Gibson seems colorful! Frankly, I don't mind whether Gibson is an angel, a wizard or the devil himself, all I want to do is get my data back W/O paying $1500 or more to some recovery service!

Thanks,

Asher

can also mail suggestions to med007(insert "at" symbol)(insert ".")com

hard drive

joe73's picture

There are a few things to know about hard drives.
1) There is a limit to what software can do. Beyond a certain point, it cannot fix physical problems with a hard drive. This should be common sense.
2) Look at the symptoms, feel the hard drive, listen to it, can you read any data. This will lead you in the right direction.
3) You can plug in the SATA drive using a SATA to PATA converter. It will read it then as a PATA device in dos.

In general, a drive where you can read some of the data is working well enough mechanically to use a software program. If the drive refuses to read anything, then the controller board might be shot. (circuit board on hard drive) Replacing this can be done, but only with an identical hard drive and revision number.
If you hear squeeks, pops, clicking, or other noises, SHUT THE DRIVE DOWN NOW. Keeping it going will only do more damage, you will not be able to read anything at this point. $500 is minimum for repairs for small drives. $1000 is typical. The motors, spindles, heads will need to come out, platters (look like a small record) read by a machine and transferred to DVDs. This is done in a no dust environment. A tiny dust particle is a giant boulder to a hard drive.

For some shops, they have a controller card + specialized software with specific firmware knowledge of each drive, and can access manufacturers diagnostic modes. This equipment runs a few thousand dollars. It can bypass bad controller cards and some areas of physical damage. It is much more advanced than any software, but even it cannot fix those hard drives that make the loud noises!

Joe's advice is this: buy your hard drives in twos. Image one drive every so often on to the other. Keep that one turned off.
Even raid arrays fail.

Data Recovery

Anonymous's picture

The hubris that these psuedo-experts are yelling is very impressive however having experienced this technology and its development as a R&D Scientist over the last 35 years, (the stories I could tell) I would advise you for whatever it is worth to consult with Steve Gibson. He is technically very correct. We have used his product since 1991-1992 and have saved a great deal in time and money. Our main interest in doing so was to use it to restore the low level format on our MFM, RLL, ERLL,and ARLL drives with all our data in place. This was quite an achievement in those days. The alternative was to backup the data and then run the BIOS managed Low Level format or use a utility like OnTrack or such other, and then run the FDISK dos utility to partition and then run the High Level DOS FORMAT utility on each partition, then restore our DATA and Applications software. As you might guess it was a very time consuming and tedious process. With the advent of SPINRITE we saved tremendously. Steve almost became a Patron Saint of the industry. Several of the Commercial GURU’S tried to copy him but soon gave up. One of the most notorious was the NORTON package by Symantec who has ruined almost every good application they ever touched. I purchased it and almost fell off my bench when I first used it. It was a big JOKE in fact they very quickly released another version of their utility and promptly refused to support the wannabe Spinrite clone. In fact it took them less than a month to deny any and all support and later existence of this clone. I later found out that they had tried to secretly purchase SPINRITE from Steve and he refused supposedly because he knew what kind of hack job they would make out of it, like most everything they have gotten their incompetent hands on. They are strictly a marketing group run from the top down as a marketing group with very little technical understanding or apparent skill. The almighty dollar is the only goal and quality be dammed. Try getting effective support from them and then from Steve. Night vs Day. Unless you speak Hini, Urdu, Bengali, Marathi, Sanskrit, or some other Indian dialect accompanied by a thick English accent you probably won’t get much constructive or timely help from Symantec. Some of the finest pieces of software written have disappeared down their black hole. On the other hand Steve puts the light on the spot where it does the most good.

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