OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

July 8th, 2004 by Bruce Byfield in

Numbered and bulleted lists that don't disappear, switch, realign themselves or otherwise make your life miserable.

Like any word processor, OpenOffice.org's Writer automatically adds numbers and bullets to paragraphs for you. Unlike typical word processors, however, Writer does not make lists a part of paragraph styles. Instead, lists have styles of their own. These styles are called numbering styles. It's a rather misleading term, though, because it refers to both numbered and bulleted lists, but never mind.

By splitting lists and paragraphs, Writer gains several advantages. First, the split removes many users' confusion regarding whether they are configuring lists or paragraphs. Second, it is more economical, because one list style can be applied to multiple paragraph styles instead of defining the same format separately for each paragraph. Third, and most important of all, separating list styles from paragraph styles gives list options more room for custom settings without burying them deep in the menus.

In addition, Writer's numbering styles are more dependable. Unlike other word processors, Writer places bullets and numbers in fields, which is why they display in a gray backgrounds in your document (select File -> Page Preview to see how they'll look when you print). One of the uses of fields is for variable information. So, by using fields for lists, Writer makes its lists more or less immune to corruption. For example, if you want to:

  • interrupt list items with unnumbered lines or styles

  • place one type of list between two items in another list (for example, bullets between numbered items)

  • move a numbered item to another place in the list

you usually can do so without problems. In fact, Writer encourages you to do so by offering a custom tool bar for lists.

Accessible in several ways, Writer's numbering styles are both highly convenient and highly customizable. Not only do they give you the tools to create several types of lists, but you also can use the same tools for a time-saving trick or two.

Using Automatics Lists

You can use automatic lists in several ways:

  • Manual application: Select Format -> Numbering/Bullets from the menu or the Numbering On/Off button in the Object tool bar. This method is suitable mainly for short documents and default settings. If you use an elaborate setup, you'll either have to recreate it or copy and paste each time you use it.

  • Autocorrection: Type the first number or bullet and add contents. When you press the Enter key for the next paragraph, Writer recognizes that you are making a list. The number or bullet in the first paragraph is placed in a field, and one is added to the next paragraph automatically. If this feature does not work, check that Tools -> AutoCorrect/AutoFormat -> Options -> Apply numbering - symbol: * is turned on.

  • Semi-automatic application: Create a numbering style and then apply it to paragraphs as you choose.

  • Automatic application: Associate the numbering style with a paragraph style on the paragraph style's Numbering tab. Whenever the paragraph is used, it is numbered unless you turn off numbering with the numbering tool bar. Give both the numbering and paragraph style the same name, so that you can see at a glance that they're associated.

For your own convenience, automatic application is recommended.

Types of Lists

Numbering styles support three different types of lists:

  • Numbered Lists: lists in which the order matters, such as a recipe, or the steps in a technical manual.

  • Bulleted Lists: lists in which the order is unimportant. For example, in the list you're reading now, the order in which you read the list items doesn't matter. You won't lose data or suffer grievous bodily harm if you don't read them in order.

  • -Outline Numbering: an outlining method that uses a single paragraph style. I call this method single-style outlining to differentiate it from the type of outline numbering available in Tools -> Outline numbering, which is something quite different.

In addition, you can use numbering lists for a couple of tricks that do not directly involve lists.

Bulleted and numbered lists each have five numbering styles pre-defined. For bullets, they're called List, while for ordered lists they're called Numbering. These styles are useful as examples and have corresponding paragraph styles pre-defined to which they can be assigned. However, descriptive names, such as lower case letters in blue, are much more convenient.

Each of the three types of lists has at least one tab in the numbering styles window from which you can choose a pre-defined design. In addition, bullets have the Graphics tab. If you want to customize styles, however, your main concerns are the Position and the Options tabs. The Position tab includes similar settings for all types of lists.

However, if you want to customize your lists, the Options tab is the one that matters. Its available options change with the type of list you're making.

Positioning Options for Lists

The Position tab contains options for how list items are positioned on a line of text. The tab's options especially are important for single-style outline numbering. However, all list types can use the options on the Position tab:

  • Indent: sets the space between the numbering field and the start of the line. If the style uses outline numbering, select the Relative box to set the indent in relation to the start of the line in the previous level of the hierarchy. Based on HTML, many users automatically indent a list from the text body paragraphs. However, habit seems to be the only reason for this practice. There often is no reason why a top-level list should have an indent. Sub-lists can be indented to show their relation to the top level list, but even that is not always necessary. Often, the change in numbering format is enough.

  • Spacing to text: the distance between the numbering field and the start of the text. If this option is not used, then the starting position of the text shifts when the number of digits in a numbered list changes (for example, when changing to two digit numbers at 10). This setting takes some fiddling to get right. Too little spacing looks cramped but too much disassociates the bullets or numbers from the list items.

  • Position -> Minimum space numbering -> text: set a minimum distance between the number and the start of the text in the first line. The other lines in the paragraph either are aligned with the text or use the setting in the Spacing to text field. If the option is used, the starting position of the text shifts when the number of digits changes in the list.

  • Numbering alignment: how the number or bullet is positioned in its field. Although this option has some use in complex layouts, especially when dealing with large numbers, for the most part you can leave it at the default setting of Left and ignore it.

Making a Custom Numbered List

If you want to create a numbered list quickly, you can select the style from the Numbering style tab. The pre-defined choices for numbered lists often are all that you need. For anything out of the ordinary, go directly to the Options tab and use these settings:

  • Numbering: set the numbering format. Arabic numbers, upper and lower case Roman numerals and letters are all available.

  • Before / After: sets the characters before and after the number. For example, before the number you might want Chapter, while after the number a simple period or parentheses might do.

  • Character style: the character style used for formatting numbers. In a simple document, you can use the default Numbering symbol. However, if you are using differently formatted numbered lists, you should create a different character style for each format.

  • Start at: The number at which numbered lists should start. This is also the number that a paragraph reverts to when you select the Restart Numbering button on the List Mode tool bar.

Making a Bullet Style

You can select a pre-defined bullet from the Bullet tab. If you want something more elaborate, you can select a bullet from the Graphics tab. These bullets are the same ones found in Tools -> Gallery -> Bullets. The bullets on the Graphics tab are most suitable for on-line work, but I suggest you avoid using them. As a friend remarked, the available choices are "so mid-Nineties" that they seem quaint. Fortunately, more interesting tools are available on the Options tab.

If you select Bullets in the Numbering field, you then can select the character style to use and the particular character for the bullet. In an ordinary font, you can select various characters for a bullet. However, if you set the character style to a dingbat set--a font in which characters are replaced by pictures--you can be even more creative. Just remember that if you open the document on another machine, it needs to have the same dingbat font to depict the bullets properly.

Incidentally, if your document might be opened in MS Word, change the character style to one that MS Word can access. The default Bullets character style uses StarSymbol to create bullets and generally is not available to MS Word. Alternatively, you might want to use the Adobe Type Manager in Windows to load StarSymbol.

You also can create a bullet style by selecting Graphics or Linked Graphics in the Numbering field. Selecting Graphics embeds the graphic you select in the document, while Linked Graphics references the separate graphics file. Which one to select depends on circumstances, but basically, you should select Graphics to keep the document self-contained or Linked Graphics to control file size.

In both cases, the choice of graphic for a bullet deserves some thought. In most cases, the graphic is going to display at a relatively small size, so too complex a picture is out. Similarly, if the document is printed in black and white, the contrasts of a colored graphic probably are going to be lost. Usually, you'll want a simple graphic with strong contrasts in colors.

In both cases, too, the options are the same. Once you select the graphic, you can adjust its display width and height, selecting the Keep Ratio box to keep the proportions the same. You also can use Alignment to change how the graphic sits on the baseline. Be prepared for some experimentation before you find the best way to display the graphic as a bullet. Too large a graphic can distort the lines in the list item, while too small a graphic may be invisible and therefore not worth using at all.

Making an Outline Numbering Style

To create an outline numbering style, select one of the pre-defined formats on the Outline tab. If you only need three to five outline levels, one of the pre-defined formats may be all you need. However, if you need more, move directly to the Options tab. There, your choices are the same as for a numbering style. The difference is that you can make the choices for each outline level, selecting the one to work on from the list on the left of the window. If you want, you also can set the options in the Positioning tab separately for each outline level.

By default, each outline level starts at the number set in the Start at field. However, if you want numbering to continue from level to level, you can select All levels -> Consecutive numbering instead.

As an alternative to defining each outline level separately, select 1-10 as the level and define the style once. Then, associate it with a new paragraph style, and use the Condition tab of the paragraph style to format each outline level with an existing paragraph style, such as the Headings 1-10. This alternative usually is much faster to do than formatting each outline level separately.

Applying Lists

No matter how you apply numbering styles, as soon as you start a list, Writer switches to list mode. List mode is marked by its own tool bar that slides out from the blue arrow on the right of the Object tool bar. This tool can get lost if you are placing a list in a table, which has its own tool bar, but keep clicking on the blue arrow, and you'll get to it.

List mode's tool bar contains the functions you need for managing lists. Many of the buttons on the tool bar are for single-style outline numbering. These tools are similar to those for headings on the Navigator, allowing you to change the level of the current paragraph and reposition it. Frankly, though, they're not as well organized on the tool bar. Moreover, outline numbering usually is easier to manage using the Tab key to descend an outline level and Shift+Tab to ascend a level.

Interspersed with the outline numbering buttons are three basic buttons:

  • Numbering On/Off (first button from left): turns numbering off entirely. If you're using numbering styles attached to paragraph styles, you don't need this button. Instead, change paragraph styles to one that doesn't use numbering.

  • Insert Unnumbered Entry (fifth button from left): turns numbering off for the current paragraph only. The start of the current paragraph is aligned with the text of other list items. This tool removes the necessity of creating a paragraph style subordinate to a numbered paragraph style, but without the numbering.

  • Restart numbering (second button from right): resets the current paragraph to the start of the numbering sequence. Usually, the start is one, but you can set the numbering style to start at any point on the Options tab.

Armed with these buttons, you can wrangle any list that you care to create.

Tricks with Numbering Lists

Outline numbering can be used for more than lists. A bullet style with a graphic can be used as any sort of recurring graphic, such as a Warning in technical documentation. The graphic can be placed beside text or in a separate paragraph above it. However, if it's placed in a separate paragraph, leave a space after it. Otherwise, Writer detects the paragraph as blank and, unhelpfully, deletes the graphic. Numbering styles also can be used as an alternative to autotext. Set the Numbering on the Options tab to None, and enter up to fifty characters of text in each of the Before and After fields. As with a recurring graphic, you need to add a space each time you use the paragraph style to which the autotext is assigned.

Conclusion

Occasionally, you may notice a momentary stumble in OpenOffice.org's handling of lists. An especially common one seems to occur when changing from one list style to another. However, these stumbles always correct themselves after two or three presses of the return key. In the worst cases, applying another style then reapplying the numbering style corrects any problem. Far more frequently, the lists are trouble-free.

This robustness is one of Writer's main advantages over MS Word, whose lists inevitably become hopelessly jumbled if you do any of these tasks. In fact, the way to overcome these problems in MS Word is to forget about automatic lists and manually place bullets and numbers in fields. With OpenOffice.org Writer, however, you have the convenience of automatic lists and the stability of fields automatically. If you're a compulsive list-maker, like me, you'll be surprised at the time you save because of this single difference.

Bruce Byfield was a manager at Stormix Technologies and Progeny Linux Systems and a Contributing Editor at Maximum Linux. Away from his desktop, he listens to punk-folk music, raises parrots and runs long, painful distances of his own free will. He currently is writing a book on OpenOffice.org.

__________________________

--
Bruce Byfield (nanday)

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linux

On October 2nd, 2007 enigma download mp3 (not verified) says:

Hyper123, started? Linux kernel CPU want how I get do to implement the for . Best regards.

Its a complete mess

On January 20th, 2007 Anonymous (not verified) says:

the OO numbering is such a mess Im close to installing Word again. This is a hopeless case!

So many years of computing, yet no decent writer app

On December 21st, 2006 Anonymous (not verified) says:

Numbering is a nightmare. In 1991 I wrote my master using FrameMaker and numbering worked like a charm. In 2006 I am stuck with openoffice where numbering is impossibly hard. I'm going to have to go back to my favorite 1988 tool: latex. This is so frustrating. If I knew a $1000 would fix the problem forever, I would pay it right away: who do I write the cheque to?

OOo Off the Wall: Not even on the Same Page

On November 1st, 2006 Simon Mackenzie (not verified) says:

I like OOo! But I still think back to the days of Venture Publisher. In comparison control of paragraph style numbering and insertion of numbering and style text into headers in OOo is disappointing, frustrating and seems so unbelievably inconsistent. One has to check various unrelated dialogue boxes to effect some sort of result; but predicting the result seems very unpredictable. (I feel the results are more akin to the results of the “Improbability Drive

numbering lists

On March 8th, 2006 Anonymous (not verified) says:

I appreciate the effort of writing this paper. However, also given our enthusiasm for writer, I must say that numbering the title of chapter and paragraphs is a nightmare. I could not solve my problems even after reading the article. The only program I used that offered the result strightforward was lotus manuscript! This is 20 years ago. Even a printed book about OOO could not explain the mechanism to me. I really hope somebody is going to write a good tutorial on this.
Thanks

Open Office numbering is so b

On May 6th, 2005 Anonymous (not verified) says:

Open Office numbering is so bloody ridiculous. The behaviour is so unpredictable. Why couldn't they have just followed MS Office outline numbering exactly. Most users are so used to that. Now they've mixed it up with the styles. Then there's a Tools->outline numbering, both of which can't do even the simplest outline numbering MS Word allowed me to do. Its stupid and ridiculous.

Re: OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

On September 17th, 2004 Anonymous says:

OOo 1.1.2 is just rubbish when it comes to lists and outlines. It is worse than M$!!! It has been an extremely frustrating experience. After two months of trying to make decent looking outlines and lists I gave it up. Type everything manually!

So that's why it mixes up bullets and lists

On July 9th, 2004 Anonymous says:

This article goes some way towards explaining why my bullets spontaneously turn into numbers and why my numbering sometimes spontaneously starts at "7" instead of "1". Ah well - it will be fixed one day. (I've got a 200+ page master document with 31 sub-documents.)

Re: So that's why it mixes up bullets and lists

On July 9th, 2004 Anonymous says:

I don't know how you implemented bullets and numbers, but you could also be having problems if you haven't been using styles, or if your sub-documents have a different template than your master document.

A really great article.. Thanks

My biggest issue with Writer's numbering/lists isn't really with the lists at all, but rather with the document wanting to change the font because of how i selected or deleted text. It usually manifests itself as a number in a different font than what I had been typing in. I guess the moral is to do the formatting after you write the document.

Re: OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

On July 13th, 2004 Bruce_Byfield (not verified) says:

Actually, you have a couple of choices:

- turn off all the automatic features
- use paragraph and character styles throughout

Either way, you should get the results you want.

My problem with OOo numbering is that I haven't been able to consistently turn it off! I don't want/need any "help" with numbering lists. Unfortunately I've had problems turning it off (and keeping it turned off).

I would like a top level menu option telling OOo to leave the text alone.

You've hit the mark, man.

Re: OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

On July 13th, 2004 Bruce_Byfield (not verified) says:

Try turning off all the features in Tools > AutoCorrect/Autoformat.

I have to agree. I want to wean myself off of Word. However, three things keep stopping me -- bulleted/numbered lists, occasional Word incompatibilities, and embedded graphics.

While this aricle may clear up most of the first and part of the second reason, I, too, wish that Open/StarOffice would just leave it alone, by default.

Once this happens, I will help wean others off of Word, too.

I guess that the popularity of WYSIWYG word processors is due, in no small measure, to the fact that anyone can produce a simple document with little or no training. It is only when trying to produce complicated documents that the limitations associated with such programs, and the contortions that their designers have to go into in their attempts to paliate them, become obvious.

Word and its siblings are OK for uncomplicated, amateurish documents. For something that allows one to obtain professional-looking, beautiful results, programs like TeX and its progeny (LaTeX, TeXmacs, LyX) are light years ahead.

I agree with your comment, TeX is the utmost in terms of possibilities and professional quality. However I think it is fortunate that this kind of WYSIWYG word processors exists. Think of all the people whose specialty or expertise is not computer science but who need to produce reports, articles or whatever without worrying about the ins and outs and who don't have time to waste learning TeX or LateX programming. They just look for something "intuitive", easy to use and better than the prehistoric ribbon typewriter. OpenOffice is splendid for that and word in a certain extent.

Re: OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

On July 22nd, 2004 Bruce_Byfield (not verified) says:

TeX is great, but it's an overstatement to claim that it is vastly ahead of other alternatives. Several publishers use OpenOffice.org for their work, so it can't be that far behind TeX.

I wonder how many people could look at a document done in TeX and another done in OpenOffice.org and tell what software was used to produce them?

OpenOffice is younger thatn Tex

On August 30th, 2004 Anonymous says:

Tex can do things OpenOffice cannot but Openoffice users a extendable XML the features could be added. If you used a feature that Tex only had I could pick it but else I could not.

Now merging the features of Latex into Openoffice would be a power boast.

Note it is also what you see is what you get. This has many extras. The source of Hotdog Html editor was a good merge of direct editing with What you see is what you get. This is Latex and most Tex based editors faults I have not found one that does a good job of this.

Now it is just a merge with openoffice to get good display with out lossing the extra functions(add a tex exporter/importor and extend the XML where needed).

Re: OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

On July 13th, 2004 Bruce_Byfield (not verified) says:

Yes, there are a lot of badly designed documents out there.

However, the problem is not really the tools. The problem is that most users have no idea of the principles of good design. GUI programs give users more ways to go wrong, but put design-illliterates in front of Tex, and their results would be no better.

The truth is, both GUI programs and Tex require both learning and design knowledge to use well. Given both, the only reason to prefer one over the other is your own work habits.

While I don't use TeX-based tools, the best WYSWYG document processor IMHO has always been Framemaker. It handled complex and large documents without any problems, especially section numbered headings. MS Word makes me tear my hair out everytime it autocorrects numbered headings and insists on overriding my paragraph numbering styles.

Unfortunately, when Adobe bought out Framemaker, the stability of the first-release Adobe-branded FrameMaker was poor, and it's been many years since I've touched it so I don't know if it's still around even.

Now if OOo manages to implement FrameMaker style numbering, I'll be a happy camper!

Outline numbering in Writer is just plain broken

On February 16th, 2006 M1911 (not verified) says:

All I want to do is having my headings outline numbered. That is, my doc should look like this:

1. Introduction
blah blah blah

2. First Real stuff
blah bla blah
2.1 Subsection
bla blah blah
2.2 Another Subsection

Setting this up is incredibly easy in Word. You simply edit the styles and you are done. It is incredibly easy in HTML. Here I am floundering around in Writer and I just can't figure it out. Why did you have to take a simple idea and make it so bloddy complicated?

I somehow figured out how to

On July 6th, 2006 Anonymous (not verified) says:

I somehow figured out how to do the numbering you're looking for with heading1, heading2, and numbering. But now I'm in this mess where I can't insert a new heading 2 that uses the same numbering as the heading2 paragraphs around it. If I have 2; 2.1; 2.2; 3; ... and I want to insert a heading 2 before 2.1 I end up with 2; 1.1; 2.1; 2.2; 3; ... I ended up copying and pasting the 2.1 paragraph and erasing all but the number. There are multiple sets of numbered paragraphs and I have no idea how to get Writer to use just one.

I'm sure this is very powerful, but without better documentation it's frustrating.

I have been battling with

On November 27th, 2006 Anonymous (not verified) says:

I have been battling with the same problem for over 18months...

I found something out try this:
insert new "default" paragraph eg

2.3
blah blah
my new default parargraph, with numbering turned OFF
2.4

Now select part of the new line, you will find an NEW option saying
Continue previous numbering, select this. You will see something like

2.3
blah blah
3 my new......
2.4

then using the "bullets and numbering" toolbar (view-->Toolbars) "push" in the numbering by clicking on -> arrow you should get

2.3
blah blah
2.3.1 my new.....
2.4

It sometimes works..... if your lucky but once numbering is there you won't get the contiue option!!! aRRRRRRRRR!!

What I'd like to see is an option like "restart numbering" BUT the
opersite "conitune numbering" which links to previous lat numbering reference which if its too deep you "just" <- back with the option in
the numbering tool bar button.

THIS whole numbering thing is really coursing me to rething OO, which
on the whole I like, but this numbering issues has caurse me to re-write more than one doc to just to fix numbering!! not fun on a 100page doc. Please Please someone that can please look into it

Two separate issues

On June 5th, 2007 Anonymous (not verified) says:

There seems to be two separate issues here:

1) Bullets and numbering
2) Paragraph and heading numbering

What I have found is that if the item just before an "Outline Numbering" heading is a bulleted or numbered list, that heading will not become numbered when you do a Tools -> Outline Numbering.. action on your document.

To get the number to appear I found I had to:

Push enter at the end of the list, then backspace to remove that new list member, then enter twice to create two blank paragraphs straight after the list, then the delete key to pull the following heading onto the second blank paragraph (its heading style gets changed to that paragraph style), then re-style the heading to the appropriate level.

Once I did that the heading appeared with a magically assigned number, and OO reordered the rest of the numbering systems below that heading to match.

I suspect that its a bug.

I got the same problem with 2.0.3

On July 11th, 2006 Anonymous (not verified) says:

I found exactly the same problem, even in 2.0.3.

The outline numbering for headings worked just fine when I first edited my document. When I came to edit it again today, any new headings started again at 1. So I have section 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 and then 1.1.

Thanks for the tip about copy+paste. It works for me.

Cranky Numbering

On February 27th, 2007 Anonymous (not verified) says:

The key to getting numbering to work as expected is to define a new list style.

For example I have some headings in a document that I want outline numbered, I define a new list style 'foo' in the 'list styles' pane of the 'styles and formatting' window; I then assign the list syle 'foo' to the paragraph styles 'Heading 1' ... 'Heading 4'. That way if I change the style of some text to a 'Heading' style it will automatically continue numbering from the previous entry that has the same style.

If you have some headings that have got out-of-sync with the rest of the list just place the cursor on the same line and double click the heading style you created in the 'styles and formatting' window, they will automagically re-number themselves in line with the rest of the list in that style.

Voila. Sane numbering.

Not so wrong after all

On April 23rd, 2006 Gianluca Amato (not verified) says:

The easy way is to assign paragraph styles Heading 1 and Heading 2 to your headings. Then, go to Tools -> Outline Numering and choose the kind of numbering you like for all your headings.

This article describe another approach to outlining documents (one-style outlining) but I feel it is more difficult.

By the way, Brunce, thanks a lot for your wonderful articles.

Re: OOo Off the Wall: It's Numbering, but Not as We Know It

On July 13th, 2004 Bruce_Byfield (not verified) says:

FrameMaker is still around, but the rumor is that its features are going to be absorbed into In-Design.

I'd like to see OOo borrow Frame's approach, and allow a style to be defined to restart a numbering list, too.

Otherwise, OOo is really much closer to FrameMaker in functionality and logic than it is to MS Word. I'm starting to assemble notes for an article on the subject, and I'm surprised to reach this conclusion.

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