Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

 in
The install is easy and you can Click-N-Run to get all the tools you want--given the basic install features, that's going to be a lot.
______________________

Comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

made me giggle

m3mnoch's picture

i'm sorry to say that your article made me giggle. you are obviously well versed in linux (as appear most of the others posting comments) but i couldn't help but smile at this bit:

"By the end, I spent more time downloading the tools and programs that I needed with Lindows than it took for me to install and configure Fedora Core 1. I ultimately reinstalled Fedora and managed to get everything working, except wireless and the ACPI power functions. If I recompile the kernel I can get the ACPI power functions working as well, but I have not had time yet to go that route."

by that statement, it strikes me that you are settling for less functions working and more time spent just so you can use something you are more familiar with. seems sort of an odd, disjointed and very curmudgeon sort of conclusion. especially with the comment about linspire taking more time, yet, you don't have complete compatibility with fedora core because you don't have the time.

wouldn't it be easier to deal with the easy installs (ssh, sendmail, etc.) rather than chasing down unknown power or wireless solutions? it may just come down to the challenge is more fun, i dunno.

i'm not /really/ poking fun. just a humorous observation. fascinating article. thanks for writing it up. it's great to see so many different viewpoints.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

caspitas's picture

I'm in the decision of choosing a Linux for doing the job of a WebServer. Which linux recomend you (easy to setup, stable,...)?

Nice article.

Thanks,

Caspitas
Webmaster from

Billetes de avion.ORG

FreeBSD Unix

Anonymous's picture

If you want something stable and secure, I recommend you FreeBSD Unix. There is a handbook online which is well-written. You can also buy it printed or buy any of the books about FreeBSD available at Amazon.com and other places.

FreeBSD is an open source Unix flavor derived from the Unix version developed at the University of California at Berkeley. It's also known as BSD Unix and Berkeley Unix.

FreeBSD is used by many enterprises and projects such as Yahoo! and Apache. FreeBSD is also the core of Apple's Mac OS X.

http://www.freebsd.org/

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

I will never use linux on a laptop before I can buy it preloaded, with EVERYTHING configured to work with whatever hardware on the machine and a guarantee to get updates that won't break the configuration.

That's why I bought a Powerbook. ssh is installed, cups printing as well, I can mount my nfs shares and run Openoffice and even start a remote X session running on my PC + I can connect my camcorder and edit the movies.

When you buy a windows laptop, you buy that "guarantee" from MS and the vendor. I don't want it.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Are you aware that Lindows offers a LapTop fully loaded with Lindows 4.5 for $799.00. They have a link on their website that allows easy ordering.
For a newbie, why do you want to go thru the hassle of set-up and figuring thing out.
Plus, at that price, it's one of the most economical buys in America.
I bought and use it on a daily basis, it's great.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Try: Linux Certified Laptops. You can even get LindowsOS or Xandors pre-installed!

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

"I will never use linux on a laptop before I can buy it preloaded, with EVERYTHING configured to work with whatever hardware on the machine and a guarantee to get updates that won't break the configuration."

What a boring statement. Boring and Lame.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

iscar1's picture

>>>
What a boring statement. Boring and Lame.
<<<

Ethan Zuckerman wrote in the July 2003 Linux Journal "Almost every culture in the world is more polite than global geek culture". Proven here once again.

When I was just starting with Linux I posted a message asking for help in configuring KDE and Gnome to a USENET group. I was suprised when someone replied stating only "if you don't know how to do it, you shouldn't be using Linux".

If Linux is going to make it onto the desktops of the world and especially the business world, there are a LOT of attitudes out there that are going to have to change. People need support and education, not arrogance.

Best Regards,
Alan White

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

It's not meant to be entertaining or to gain your worthless (to me) approval. It's just my opinion. You don't like it ? so what ? LOL

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Modern laptops are getting easier and easier to handle in Linux. Intel's centrino chipset and the ATI IGP chipset have to all intents and purposes eliminated the previous variety in the market. Even the vendors building around intel non-centrino are just adding a different wireless unit.

The other setups (xmeta, via anataur+via chipset, sis chipset) are all fringe products if you can find them at all.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

It's just time for hardware vendors to write drivers and submit their source under gpl to the kernel for incorporation or else (but very deprecated) build compiled modules for as many distributions as possible and submit them to these distro builders for distribution.

GPL? Are you crazy??

Anonymous's picture

If a company gives away their driver source code, they're also giving many things to competition like the way how their devices work, algorithms, etc...

That's why many companies don't like GPL. In the other hand, IMHO, I think the BSD license is less restrictive; they can let other companies redistribute their drivers freely (free software) and release their source code only if the want (with the BSDL they're not required to do so).

Givaway....

Hhaus's picture

Any Engineer worth his salt can take a device that uses published parts and figure out how it works, especially with tools that are easily available from HP, Tektronics and others for checking digital circuits.. GPL Device drivers would allow other Programmers to be able to use the hardware not duplicate it. Programmers do not necessarily know the electronics involved. I feel that this conclusion is probably used by business types who think they are all knowing maybe.
Come on we just need for companies to let us know enough about how to operate their devices so that we can use them..=====SALES guys..

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Topview executive was windows 1.0.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture
    Topview executive was windows 1.0.

No, no it wasn't. Topview was IBM's product for DOS. The executive was part of Windows, but wasn't called 'Topview executive'.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

David;

I enjoyed your article very much. As a current Linux sysadmin and having used Linux since 1995 (Slackware 3.0 and Redhat 2.2) I would have to disagree with the conclusion that Lindows is not a good distribution for any group of users.

It is the only version that I have seen that I would turn any of my relatives loose with and it has superior fonts with the $4.95 (for Click-N-Run members) Bitstream font package.

As it is so good for newbies, and I have to help a lot of newbies anyway, why not use it as a normal distribution myself. I still use Redhat 9.0, Fedora, and SuSE Professional, but Lindows is just another good distribution to know and use.

The only disadvantage I can see is that it is based on Debian testing and that would seem to say that security updates are probably not as fast as one would see from Debian Woody, Slackware, SuSE, or RedHat Enterprise.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

I did not say it wasn't a good distribution for anybody. I just could not recommend it based on the relative amount of time it took me to configure and install the additional tools I needed. One of my original criteria was to be up and running quickly with a minimum of fuss.

However I believe, after Reading Kevin Carmony's post, that I will try Lindows again and configure an Aisle with all my favorite tools. That should make things easier.

One thing I love about the Linux Community is the way folks step up to help and offer suggestions - and to dispute an opinion! :-)

Thanks.
David Both

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

sermat's picture

Never tried Lindows so I cannot technically comment on it. But I must say that this is an excellent review in the way it was written. I would just ask David if he would take the Mandrake (to my humble opinion the best Linux distro available), and try to install it on his Dell laptop. This would be a really interesting comparison !!! Best regards,
Serge Matovic.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

IF he does, he should wait for the official release of Mandrake 10

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Indeed, or at least do an FTP install of the current Mandrake-devel/stable tree, which contains all bug fixes which have been made up to now. Please don't install the community edition, it is known to contains many bugs of which a lot are solved already.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

//My objective with this laptop is to have a relatively lightweight means of accessing my other computers//

You bought a Inspiron 5100 -- and you wanted lightweight?

Gads. You must have some serious guns to enjoy tugging that barge around.

iBooks/Powerbooks w/ Mac OS X

Anonymous's picture

I think an iBook or a Powerbook with Mac OS X is a better choice. You get something that works and is Unix-based (FreeBSD+Mach). Isn't that great?

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

The operative word is "relative"! It is much lighter than the old clunker that the State of North Carolina provided me. And the very lightweight laptops are more expensive.

David Both

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

i have to say this is one of the best distros i have worked with . its not bloated like debain woody. i use it on my servers . very easy to compile programs. i have written alot of my programs on lindows . they offer really good develoepment tools . in my conclusion it has what a newbie is looking foe as well as a deve;per and yes it professional .we have made a switche at my company from the windows nightmare of all those fees . our total cost was about 30 % tcp verses staying with ms corps.
thank you
amazing powers of observation

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Debian 3.0r2 'woody' is bloated? Didn't know that
Obviously if you install everything from the package list, it's bloated. The base install however is 50mb, and you don't have to install anything else. Only the things that you choose.

Bloat? Explain more.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Yeah, probably some people can't handle somuch choice :) ..
My main server is a debian install of 150 MB .. and my desktop is an install of +1G .. but bloated? never..

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Yeah, I'd love to hear where the bloat in Debian is at. This outta be good for several laughs.

LindowsOS is Debian

Anonymous's picture

Remember, LindowsOS is based on Debian. That means that you can install many packages using apt-get. You might want to check out

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html

You will need to find out if LindowsOS is based on the Debian "stable" distribution or "testing", and configure apt accordingly.

Of course, using CNR is safer, because those applications have been "approved" by Lindows. But I'm sure that you'll have a much larger selection using apt.

Cheers!

Re: LindowsOS is Debian

Anonymous's picture

Are you suggesting that one use BOTH CNR and Apt-Get on a Lindows OS?

I do not know whether that is a good idea since the CNR package management system will not know what the Apt-Get Package management System has done and vice versa.

It is probably best to stick with just CNR. But it is my understanding that you must pay a yearly fee to use CNR in order to get your Lindows OS up to date or install new software. If you want to save $$, Lindows may not be for you.

Rob

Re: LindowsOS is Debian

Anonymous's picture

Remember, LindowsOS is based on Debian. That means that you can install many packages using apt-get.

IIRC, the Lindows' guys do warn that using apt-get can break Lindows' Click'n'Run.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

You can get ACPI working in fedora without recompiling the kernel by adding "acpi=on" at the end of the kernel line in the grub config file.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Thanks! That works. I appreciate the help.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

David,

Thanks for sharing your experience using LindowsOS on your Laptop. I
believe your review was fair and for the most part accurate. I did,
however, want to point out a few things you may not be aware of. You
made the comment...

Although Lindows is a good
choice for many users inexperienced with
Linux, I would not recommend it for power users or sysadmins.

I wanted you to know that we have many SysAdmins who love
LindowsOS. The reason they like it, is because THEY CAN in fact set up
desktop and laptop systems in under 10 minutes, just the way they like
them. They do this by using "Aisles." Perhaps you didn't try these.
An Aisle allows you to create your very own, custom distro, in just
minutes, by customizing a group of programs that you like to install,
all with one click. There are public Aisles and private ones. Here
are a couple of my public aisles:


http://www.lindows.com/aisles/kevincarmony


http://www.lindows.com/aisles/kevincarmonygames

Here are thousands of other Aisles that have been set up by LindowsOS
users:

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_aisle_landing.php

The idea is that any user can set up as many of these Aisles as they
wish, and make them public or private.

So, now, back to SysAdmins. What they do, is create a few Aisles that
have everything that THEY need to install on different set ups. So
now, they can install LOS in under 10 minutes, go to one of the Aisles
they've set up, CLICK ONE BUTTON, and install that workstation EXACTLY
how they want it. So you can see why LindowsOS, CNR and Aisles make
for the IDEAL system for SysAdmins.

David, I would suggest that if you were to create your "DavidOS"
version of Linux, most SysAdmins would complain about your product too,
because it would have too much or too little. For example, many of the
products you mentioned that you used CNR to install, SysAdmins would
NOT want on most of their employees desktops. Does the receptionist
really need SSH? So, rather than having 2,142,648 versions of our
distro, we have one very basic one, and 2,142,648 Aisles.

The other thing I'd point out, is you may have been happier with the
Developers Edition of LindowsOS. It has all the same features as the
Laptop Edition, but also has all of these tools pre-installed:

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_aisle.php?aisleid=1047

If you'd like to turn your Laptop Edition into the Developer's Edition,
just make one click on the above Aisle. =)

Thanks,

Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

This sounds really_cool. A totally customized distro, available at anytime, for a sysadmin or anyone to install. Doesnt have to worry about making backups or taking up space on his server.

A sysadmin setting up a fleet of 50 laptops for sales sets up an asile one way...has another isle for field engineers...another for the execs...and yet another for office dekstops...a sub-asile for clerical staff, one for engineering, one for accounting.....

Just plug-in the box or laptop you are deploying, browse to the paticular asile you need, click on the icon, let it suck down the software and install while you go off and attend to that server that was compromised.... 8-o Or, read that cool article in Linux Journal.

This is one cool_tool, probably next in line to apt for Debian.

--karl

Will Lindows run in 233Mhz?

Anonymous's picture

My kids computer has 233Mhz pentium with 196 MB RAM. They currently run Debian Sid/Gnome quite comfortably on it.

Lindows Website says it needs 800Mhz. Does anyone know if it will run in 233Mhz?. The machine is used for a few kids games, web browsing and typing in Gedit

Re: Will Lindows run in 233Mhz?

Anonymous's picture

Tried it on think pad 600e at 400 Mhz.
No Go. would not even install

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Dear Mr. Carmony.
Thank you for your interest in responding to David's evaluation. Your response gives a solution to a problem that David encountered and you did it without hype or criticism of other products. Learning about the Aisles is very interesting and I will have our development team take a close look at your OS distribution to see if it will fit into our eductation department. We operate a grade 9 and 10 high school via the network and a low maintenance laptop and desktop would be of benefit.
Thank you.
Dan Pellerin
Network Manager, www.knet.ca Email: networkmanager@knet.ca

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

I was not aware of this and am glad you pointed it out to me. I will try it in the near future.

I do believe that Lindows is quite capable of being everything an admin would need. My experience of it - perhaps because I did not understand the full capabilities of the Aisles - was that it took longer and was more effort than my experience with Red Hat. This is undoubtedly because of my greater familiarity with the Red Hat distribution. I will be happy to revisit this.

Lindows is a really fine Linux distribution. I am strongly considering using it on my wifes workstation whcih currently has Fedora Core 1. That way it would be much easier for her to download and install programs she might want.

Thanks for your comments!

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

It is my understanding that if you want to use CNR or aisles you must pay a yearly fee.

With Fedora, Debian and others, there is NO yearly fee. You use the built in RPM and DEB utilities. It may not be as easy as CNR but it is free.

Since Lindows will try to lock you into their CNR package management system, you may be at their mercy when it comes to what packages you can download.

As mentioned by another poster, the last time I looked at the CNR warehouse, I did NOT see OpenOffice v1.1. I only saw the older version 1.0. At the same time, Lindows was promoting the purchase of StarOffice v7.

IMHO, OpenOffice v1.1 is a VERY popular program that has been around for some time. It should be a priority to get popular packages into the CNR warehouse ASAP.

It would appear that in some cases it may NOT be in the best interests of Lindows to keep the CNR warehouse up to date. After seeing what is in the CNR warehouse, do you really want to pay a yearly fee?

Rob

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

There is no such thing as "locking in to CNR". At tit's core lindows is based on debian. You can change the apt sources list to a debian archive and never use CNR again.

CNR is a convenient value add for users who don't want to or can't fiddle with their apt sources file.

As for the timeliness of packages that too is a debian thing. A debian distribution is though of in wholistic terms. The idea is that no one package can make the distribution unstable or cause other packages to break. Also all packages must be installed into predicatable places and have all their data stored in predicatable places. As you can imagine it takes an immense amount of testing to achieve such interoperability amongst 3000+ packages. This is why debian takes so long to release a "stable" package and why many debian programs lag the bleeding edge by quite a bit.

having said that if you prefer the bleeding edge you can subscribe to debian unstable and have the very latest software installed. No guarantees on stability and security though.

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

Well said,

I'd also add that running debian testing runs about as stable as most of the cutting-edge distributions.. and testing does have newer packages like openoffice 1.1..

Re: Can a Red Hat Guru Survive on a Lindows Laptop?

Anonymous's picture

I recently considered purchasing Lindows for my father in-law who wanted to run Linux. I ended up purchasing Xandros 2.0 because it came with OpenOffice 1.1.

I was very put-off that Lindows only offers OpenOffice 1.0 on click and run (while prominently displaying an offer to purchase StarOffice 7). It made me wonder what other apps would not be made available in a timely manner.

Dale

Webinar
One Click, Universal Protection: Implementing Centralized Security Policies on Linux Systems

As Linux continues to play an ever increasing role in corporate data centers and institutions, ensuring the integrity and protection of these systems must be a priority. With 60% of the world's websites and an increasing share of organization's mission-critical workloads running on Linux, failing to stop malware and other advanced threats on Linux can increasingly impact an organization's reputation and bottom line.

Learn More

Sponsored by Bit9

Webinar
Linux Backup and Recovery Webinar

Most companies incorporate backup procedures for critical data, which can be restored quickly if a loss occurs. However, fewer companies are prepared for catastrophic system failures, in which they lose all data, the entire operating system, applications, settings, patches and more, reducing their system(s) to “bare metal.” After all, before data can be restored to a system, there must be a system to restore it to.

In this one hour webinar, learn how to enhance your existing backup strategies for better disaster recovery preparedness using Storix System Backup Administrator (SBAdmin), a highly flexible bare-metal recovery solution for UNIX and Linux systems.

Learn More

Sponsored by Storix