A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

While Apple pitches radical hardware and practical software to the masses, UNIX geeks are quietly adding big value to the company's open-source, BSD-based operating system.

Yesterday morning while I was headed across the Howard Street in San Francisco, on my way to the Media queue lined up for Steve Jobs' much-hyped keynote address at Macworld, the first guy I ran into was Chris DiBona, wearing his Slashdot badge. Joining him were several other semi-familiar looking guys, so for a moment I actually thought I was at a LinuxWorld Expo. But this was the first day of Macworld Expo--same world, same venue (Moscone Center), different show.

Given the changes in both markets, however, a little confusion is understandable. The constituencies have begun to overlap. The foundation under Apple's OS X is BSD. Politics and rivalries aside, this attracts a lot of Linux weenies, not to mention UNIX heavies of varied provenance, including BSD guru Jordan Hubbard, who now works for Apple on the Darwin Project.

I wasn't inside more than a minute before a friend asked me if I had heard about Moxi, the Palo Alto company founded by Steve Perlman, a veteran of Apple and WebTV. Moxi had just made news by going public with a sexy new media center that promised to blow lots of current consumer electronics hardware out of the water. Moxi poses a variety of threats to TiVo, Sony and other entertaining companies. But none of those topics were the subjects at hand. Instead my friend said this: "Did you hear it runs on Linux?"

In past years at Macworld my Linux Journal shirt would have seemed more out of place than a leisure suit. But this year it fits right in. There were people in line wearing Sun and SGI schwag too. One guy told me he thought OS X was "subversive" because it "seeds" millions of otherwise unsuspecting households with open-source UNIX. "I can go to my Mom's, fire up her iMac, open a shell, ssh to my own server and get some real work done", one guy said to me. Ahead in line a kid parked an iBook on a recycling bin, turning it this way and that, looking for an 802.11b signal. On one corner of the laptop's lid was a little blue "Linux Inside" sticker.

Of course there was plenty of buzz about what Steve would announce at the show. This is beyond predictable, since Steve's keynote speech is high mass on the holiest day in the Macintosh liturgical calendar. The difference this year was an unusually high level of hype. "Prepare to be blown away", the Apple web site teased. But thanks to a screw-up by Time Canada, the upcoming Time magazine cover story about Apple's radically odd new iMac was already all over the Web, so speculation ran to lesser matters. What else would he talk about?

The answer was: not much.

Last year Steve had a lot to say about the UNIX roots of OS X, about open source and about the debt of influence Apple owed to thousands of customers and outside hackers who contributed code to the kernel. I looked forward to a progress report, but this year he just talked about numbers. There are 2,500 new applications for OS X, for example. Later I heard that a lot of these were ported UNIX apps, which was the kind of thing I wanted to know more about.

Then he went on to review the company's "digital hub" strategy (your PC as a device driver for all kinds of consumer electronics peripherals) and introduced a few new SKUs in the existing iBook line. Somewhere in there he introduced Apple's attractive new iPhoto software, which makes organizing, printing and sharing photographs extremely simple and easy (as well as free-as-in-beer).

But the Big Deal was the new iMac. "This is the best thing we've ever done", Steve said, as if there was nothing more to say. It was beautiful, with a form factor that had more in common with a Luxo lamp or a makeup mirror than with anything you might call a computer. Apple engineers had worked on it for two and a half years. He showed it tenderly to the audience, as if he just showed up with his new girlfriend. It would be bad form to upstage her.

So there wasn't even Steve's usual "one more thing" encore. That was how he had introduced the company's then-new Titanium laptop one year ago.

The entire service was over two hours long (about average), so wireless-equipped audience members had fun setting up adhoc network identities while they tried to find a WiFi base station with access to the Net. (On the right there's a screen shot of my own view.)

There wasn't any, which is consistent with Apple's highly managed approach to PR flow.

Anyway, the real interesting stuff happened afterwards, downstairs on the trade show floor, in a massive private booth Apple had set up just for The Media. I was eager to see what was up with OS X, especially around Darwin, its BSD-based open-source kernel. Was there a Penguin/Ox synergy going on? If so, what was that about, and where was it headed?

On the walk to the booth I ran into Tony Fadell, a guy I've known for a few years but hadn't seen in awhile. (That's him on the right, below.) He was wearing an Apple badge. "What do you do for Apple?" I asked. "I designed the iPod", he replied.

Then I ran into Ernest Prabhakar (left, with a copy of Linux Journal) who leads product marketing for Darwin. He was very eager to talk about synergies, not just between two operating systems and the various cultures involved, but between different development interests and modalities. For example, he said AppleScript Studio has the same relationship to GUI development as shell to command line. "Think about pipelining, but in three dimensions." He was way past me, but I dug his enthusiasm.

Then he pointed me toward Brian Croll, who used to run Eazel. I had interviewed Brian last spring, a few weeks before that company went under. Before Eazel, Brian had been with Sun for many years. Now he was running engineering for the Darwin end of OS X. And he was excited about it--especially about the level of open-source activity that's going on with Darwin.

What impressed me was the "and" logic going on. These guys don't see OS X as a Linux competitor. "The more you know about Linux the better you can understand what's happening at the foundation of OS X," one guy told me. "OS X is a desktop UNIX that drives a lot of devices. It likes Linux servers, and it likes Linux devices. It even likes Linux desktops. Vice versa too. There isn't a problem here."

One commercial software guy had another interesting thing to say: "Apple doesn't have absolute control of its developer community, and it's not trying to take over the world. As a Microsoft developer, you've got this huge gravitational field to contend with, plus the fact that they want to lock everybody in. This creates a much different mood."

There's another difference. Microsoft often talks about its "right to innovate." Even if we grant that Microsoft does innovate on some things, its reputation is quite otherwise. Not so with Apple. When Steve Jobs listed nine Apple "innovations" over the last year (the slide on the left), it's hard not to grant the company a high degree of originality, even if one protests the company's proprietary tendencies.

In an elevator somebody asked me why the Linux Journal logo on my shirt didn't have a penguin. I turned the question around and asked why OS X didn't have a mascot. "OS X needs an animal," I said.

"What would it be?" somebody asked.

"How about an ox?" I suggested.

"Ooo," one guy said. "Apple would never go for that."

"Why should that matter?"

"It's BSD. Why not a red devil?"

"Because it's not BSD. Darwin is only 'based' on BSD."

"Then how about a red devil with a big beard, like Charles Darwin?"

"Or maddog."

"I think you should go back to the ox."

Tomorrow I'm off to find out more about what's really up with Darwin. The Apple PR apparatus is mostly geared to showcase the company's prettiest offerings. Meanwhile, Darwin isn't an offering. It's more like an activity. For that I'll have to go straight to the geeks. It isn't hard. Some of them look pretty familiar.

Doc Searls is Senior Editor at Linux Journal.

email: doc@ssc.com

______________________

Doc Searls is Senior Editor of Linux Journal

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Hexley, the Darwin mascot...

Anonymous's picture

Darwin has Hexley as its unofficial mascot, why not use him for OS X too?

Re: Hexley, the Darwin mascot...

Anonymous's picture

Because Apple doesn't wanna get sued by Disney for TRACING Dewey and putting a dumb hat on him as a disguise.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

Baloney... It's the same old Apple dedicated to extracting $100 bills from the working class.. They proved a long time ago that they could build excellence in their systems.. But MS always gave more choices for the money. GPL/LINUX takes it many steps further giving user choices.. OSX is a great step of technology, But there's many choices of Unices. The excellence of Macintosh OS's is not a measure of their ability to give value to the community. Unix geeks aren't contributing to Macintosh, they are being conned.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

Microsoft IS about choices....Not deliberately, but effectively. They brought a certain level of standards out of chaos in the early 1980s.

I date myself... back in the 1980's the sheer volume of software choice made MS imperatiive... They also caused the market to explode by energizing the "clone" market.. The ibm clones combined with easy to plagiarize software made the MS systems extremely interesting concerning choice.. Today, the choices are much more limited, but they still allow you to use choose hardware. We take such choice for granted, but Macintosh will NEVER allow wholeslale cloning of hardware.....As far as present day software goes, MS platforms STILL offer the largest number of choices...And they offer several variations of OS's. Microsoft is now parroting APPLE's proprietary marketing practices. I.E.- Their new required registration is a move that is worth of Apple.'s proprietary mindset.

If Radio Shack, Atari, or Commodore, APPLE, had grabbed the lead, we would be saddled with proprietary and expensive solutions far beyond what we now pay.. The Intel "clone" caused a hardware to be come a commodity. Hardware costs would never have fallen as quickly without the help of the MS 'standard'.

Free'd softwares such as FreeBSD and Linux do NOT offer the desktop choices that MS platforms offer, but they are very competitive with meaningful network and enterprise apps.. And the expression "for the money" gives an edge to FreeBSD and Linux. But most importantly, there is NO COMPANY OR VENDER pressures trying to controll you... Nobody really cares if you defer upgrading, because it's your problem to recognize the need.. No MS or APPLE trying to coerce or force you into an upgrade corner.....

As far as OS X is concerned, I am not sure, but I presume that they will not make it a free download like FreeBSD or Linux....They will take FreeBSD apps, make proprietary changes and not return them to the public.. While that's cerainly legal under certain copyrights, it definitely a MS sort of thing.. I guess nobody is conned, but it feels like it.. Maybe it's the outrageous prices for Macintosh softwares, periphials and support....Perhaps you never had to replace a battery on an SE, and the dealer changed the motherboard to fix the battery and charged the customer $600.... For a $6 battery? That was the factory suggestion.....

As far as the flexibilty and power of OS X, I doubt that many Unix administrators would find that it will do things that they cannot do with other versions of Unix.

Having always been a NON-Professional, I am empowered with more opinions than fact. But it is a fact that Money and expenditure has ALWAYS colored my choice of OS's and the price of expected upgrades and enhancements have always been a key motivator.

Of course, my interpretation of choice, is colored by the fact that I am retired, and NOBODY makes me use WORD... HI..

In fact I can go for days without turning a computer on.......

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

As an OS X, IRIX, Linux, and AIX admin and developer, I must say most of your comments have very little basis in fact and really only serve to support MS NOT Apple or the Linux community. Two points you made are of specific interest for their total lack of fact:

"As far as OS X is concerned, I am not sure, but I presume that they will not make it a free download like FreeBSD or Linux...."

They already do. See Darwin on the Apple web site. You can download the install image FOR FREE and complete with source (Darwin is the underlying BSD layer and Mach kernel). With very little work you can install xfree86 and you can even have a GUI. Further, look on sourceforge for gnu-darwin which is a Darwin distro which is completely separate from Apple. Yes, it is the "same" Darwin, but if you buy a gnu-darwin CD not a penny goes to Apple (you can also download the gnu-darwin distro and install it FOR FREE).

"They will take FreeBSD apps, make proprietary changes and not return them to the public.."

And this is TOTAL BS. A prefect example is Apache. Every change that Apple made to Apache for it to run natively on OS X (as it is included with evey OS X install) was made to the main Apache source tree and submitted to Apache. Further, if you write some GPL'd app and happen to make sure it will work on OS X, how is that giving anything directly to Apple for them to change and not return those changes to the public?

Perhaps you should craw out from under the rock you have been under for the past 3-4 years. Things have changed, and Apple has succeeded in doing the one thing that the Linux community has never succeeded in: made an OS that your grandmother could use.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

Q. What is the best thing that ever happened to the computer industry?

A. We standardized on the I.B.M. PC in 1981.

Q. What is the worst thing that ever happened to the computer industry?

A. We standardized on the I.B.M. PC in 1981.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

microsoft provides choices, that's an interesting comment - perhaps you should read up on the anti-trust case against them - microsoft is not about choices.

considering that darwin is open source, how exactly is the *nix community being conned? How can being provided a solid - clean - interface to a powerful unix kernel be a bad thing?

OS X is allowing me to completely rid myself of Microsoft Windows - I'm sure there are many people like me that have no choice but to use MS Office products (no Star Office is not a choice for obvious reasons), now i have that flexibility - and all the power of a unix workstation to boot (no pun intended ;).

regards

Synergistic

Anonymous's picture

It's refreshing to see the "and" rather than the "vs" when talking about Linux and the MacOS; operating systems in the single-digit market share category are really only doing Microsoft's work for them by ripping each other apart. As Doc's good article states, the *NIXes and OS X aren't really so different after all - and most importantly, neither are their communities when it comes down to it. But often you have to fight a lot of FUD about one or the other from both sides. Thankfully, not everyone is unwilling to try new things: developer friends on both sides of the fence - a fence that is coming down - see laptops with Linux appearing at Mac dev conferences and OS X iBooks popping up at open source shindigs. The mixing of creative and technical talents from different cultures resulted the Renaissance for the nations of Europe: could this similarly be the dawn of a new Golden Age in platform development? Maybe not as long as Microsoft has much to say about it.By the way, some of these same friends called Linux the "ox" 'way back.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

I was at MacWorld yesterday, and there were two booths worth mentioning for the linux people. One

was TrollTech showing QT and QT dev tools on Mac OS X, and another was OpenOSX showing

ports of GIMP, Abiword, Gnumeric, and Apache to OS X that they would sell and support.

Both of these were very exciting to me, where I can develop QT apps on linux, and see then work

on OS X changes the game a lot. And you could buy GIMP on a CD ready to install for $30, and it

would work on OS X, where Photoshop still costs

$600 and doesn't work on OS X.

Unfortunately not many people were crowding these booth went I stopped by. This good stuff from

Linux needs to get to word out better on how it could be used on OS X.

Douglas

jhaas's perspective

haaz's picture

Heya, this is Jason Haas, LinuxPPC's former unnamed source. (remember me? ;-) For those who didn't know (which'd be most everyone) I was a longtime Mac user before setting up camp in Linux Land. I've since retired from the computer industry, but I'm quite happy to see Unix and the Mac coming together. I am writing a letter to Steve Jobs to congratulate him on doing this, as merging Unix and the Mac was something that I was trying to do with LinuxPPC.

We basically did it, too, with Mac-on-Linux, which is GPL Mac emulation software. (not that we wrote it or anything, but it was a major part of LPPC.) MOL is not nearly as smooth or integrated as Mac OS X is, but darn it, it worked. Assuming you could figure out how to set it up. ;->

My love of Unix began in 1993, which is when I first began working with it. Yeah, it was CLI-based, which was the Mac's long-time Eville Enemy. But that didn't really matter to me... it was so flexible, so powerful, so stable. (I hadn't even begun using X Windows yet. ;-)

I wanted to meld the two somehow. When I met Jeff Carr, the fellow I started LPPC Inc. he told me that this fellow in Australia had ported Linux *natively) to the Power Mac. My eyes widened, I realized that it just might be possible.

If we got 75% of the way to my goal -- melding the Mac OS with Unix -- I'd say we're now 90% or 95% of the way there. OS X is not perfect. Nor is it free, either which I'd really love. But... Jobs & co. have brought us that much closer to my goal. I need to congratulate him on this.

have fun!

-- haaz.

Re: jhaas's perspective

Anonymous's picture

Right, Sj never supported UNIX. You had to go to linux from your Mac?

I'm sorry, but clearly you've missed a huge part of history in the late 20th century.

michael@openacccess.org

Re: jhaas's perspective

Doc's picture

Whoa. It is *very* cool to see you weigh in. To say the least, we're lucky to have you around.

(To everybody else, check out Jason's site -- link above-- and the tale at LinuxPPC of his recovery from a car wreck: http://linuxppc.com/news/jhaas/.)

inovations my arse they package

Anonymous's picture

package a product

apple havent made anything in a long while os X came from next and in terms of system engineering they did sod all

hardware a bunch of rebels designed firewire (you pay a buck to apple for every device you ship)

really all the inovations came out of japanease hardware people and apple packaged them

come on I hardly call going and licenceing MP3 codec and wrapping it in a GUI inovation

they are stuck useing the 2.95 gcc ABI and know it

think TV

think tivo patents

now do you get it ?

thats what apple needs

regards

john jones

Re: inovations my arse they package

Anonymous's picture

Don't forget that Steve Jobs founded Next. I wont respond to the rest as it is usually a waste of time to try to educate the ignorant.

Re: inovations my arse they package

Btwyx's picture

They're very good at packaging. However:

> apple havent made anything in a long while os X

> came from next and in terms of system

> engineering they did sod all

Is wrong. At the very least IOKit is completely new,

completely Apple. NeXT used driverKit which was

somewhat different. The engineered the entire

I/O subsystem in a little over a year. Not a bad

acheivement in my opinion.

You may also want to count Carbon in there. It may

be based on existing APIs but the implimentation is

all new.

Not forgetting the new development environment

(new project builder).

Also as mentioned Apple kicked off FireWire.

You can do quite a bit if you spend half a billion on

a system.

Re: inovations my arse they package

Anonymous's picture

"hardware a bunch of rebels designed firewire (you pay a buck to apple for every device you ship)"

....and you don't pay anything if you don't use the term "firewire"

moron

Re: inovations my arse they package

Anonymous's picture

the firewire license is 25 cents per port, you *****.

Re: Apple Mascot

Anonymous's picture

Apple has had a mascot since 1991 when system 7.0 was introduced.

Look in any Apple "page setup" print window and you will find Moof the Dog-Cow.

Even more fitting than the penguin

Re: Apple Mascot

Anonymous's picture

It's Clarus the dogcow. It says "moof".

Re: Apple Mascot

Anonymous's picture

Her name is Clarus, not "Moof".

Re: Apple Mascot

Anonymous's picture

I could be wrong of course, but the Dog-Cow has now reproductive capabilities, nor gender of it's own ;-)

Re: Apple Mascot

Anonymous's picture

Actually, it's Clarus the Dogcow.

She (yep...SHE) says "Moof!"

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

Doc, did you manage to ask anyone at Apple about their plans for a port of Quicktime to Linux? Seems to me that until this happens, all their talk about "synergies" with Linux is really just hot air.

QuickTime for Linux

Anonymous's picture

I did ask around about this and found the answers not reassuring. Here's the executive summary of my questioning:

Sorenson Media: Nice people. When asked about the codecs used in QuickTime, they said that Apple had exclusive rights. It was 100% up to Apple to keep this IP private, deploy their own version of QuickTime on Linux, or release the binaries to projects like QuickTime4Linux, OpenQuicktime, and others.

Apple Computer: I only found one person that could speak at all about QuickTime ports, and seriously doubt I talked to the best source. With that in mind, her position was that Apple had a thousand things to accomplish and had to make business decisions about priorities. It was my impression that Apple wouldn't feel comfortable releasing the codecs to some Linux hacker, even in binary form. The fact that QuickTime is one of Apple's most famous brands probably doesn't encourage them to be cavalier about their licensing.

I just hope that Apple decides to get off the fence sometime soon. Either develop QuickTime for Linux (which should be considerably easier post-Darwin), or allow the projects that are doing QuickTime for Linux right now to have access to the binary codecs. Linux users will be grateful for whichever solution allows them to watch movie trailers next month, regardless of whether or not it has the look and feel of a real Apple Product.

Until the Sorenson codecs are available on multiple platforms, I'll continue to use standard video formats.

-Pete

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Doc's picture

What I did ask about wasn't the port to Linux (which I guess I took for granted), but the need to open the source to QuickTime and its codecs.

One guy said there was an interest in that, but that there were intellectual property issues on the part of companies other than Apple (from which I guess Apple licenses stuff).

Anyway, the next time I talk with them, I'll ask.

3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

Hi,

> AppleScript Studio has the same relationship to GUI

> development as shell to command line. "Think about

> pipelining, but in three dimensions."

Or think of when you were using Tcl/Tk "send"

command to glue programs, back in ... 1995! and

remember how you use to love it while you hate

CORBA, RMI, etc. :-D

Is this script-studio-thing under GPL ????

Cheers,

Christophe Muller.

= On the side of the software box, in the system requirements =

= section it said "Requires Windows 95 or better." ... =

= So I installed FreeBSD. -- holmes@hardon.com =

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

AppleScript Studio is part of Apple's Cocoa Development Environment, so it is not (yet?) GPL-d.

Cocoa comes with OS X, and is a complete, object-oriented development environment. You can program within Cocoa in C++, Objective-C, Java, or Applescript.

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

AppleScript was around back in '95 too ;) Apple just didn't make a WYSIWYG dev environment until now. Other parties, however, did. (such as FaceSpan)

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

Putting it under GPL is not an acceptable option. Go away GPL nazis.

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

I think the proper term is "GPL Commie" :)

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

And why not ?

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

Mostly because it's a glue technology that requires pieces to be inserted in any application that uses it. Applescript is a scripting language that accesses apple events (you can use other languages, applescript just dominates as a practical matter). Applescript as gpl without apple events is just plain useless. Apple events under GPL would turn OS X into Linux by stealth and deception. Nobody's dumb enough to go along with this, or seriously propose it.

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

sounds like the same thing could be achieved using dcop and any scripting (or programming) language of your choice (in KDE environment).

Re: 3D pipe & GUI

Anonymous's picture

Could you get the same results? Probably. But that's like saying you could use HTML to lay out the same page as you'd get in PageMaker (or another serious layout app.)

The real difference with AppleScrips is it doesn't script widgets, it scripts actions. A program that supports it can be tailored for script usage without changing the high-level UI at all.

I can script Mail.app to create a new message with a specific subject and recipient with one line of code. That's because AS scripts tasks instead of actions.

All in all, a very powerful tool for RAD and system automation.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

It's good to see someone recognize that more than half of the Mac web sites run on Linux (and no, the rest don't run on IIS).

There's no reason why OS X and Linux should compete. The freeware stuff, with code, has been popping up like crazy on Mac download sites.

If I didn't know better I'd swear it started life as Linux. How do you spell MacGIMP?

Off to MacSlash......

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

How do you spell MacGIMP

P - H - O - T - O - S - H - O - P

My friends and I used to call linux the ox.

Anonymous's picture

actually we called linux laney ox, then it was shortened to the ox.

this was back around the 1.0 days, when virtual terminals, and fwm blew me away. As did the internet. Wow, look we are logging into a computer in texas(from outback australia)!

MacOS X Mascot

beerits's picture

The one true choice: Clarus the Dogcow.

http://developer.apple.com/products/techsupport/dogcow/

Re: MacOS X Mascot

Anonymous's picture

A thundering herd of Dog Cow is moving your way!!!!

Moo-OOOF! moof! MOOoooofff!

Re: MacOS X Mascot

Anonymous's picture

MOOF LIVES!

Great Article...

Anonymous's picture

With all the hoopla around the new iMac (although I like it very much), I was delighted

to read your report about the "and"ing of Linux and OS X. I think there can be so much overlap and synergy between Apple and the Linux Community if only Jobs were a bit more visionary.. How about porting, elegant applications like, iPhoto, iTunes, AppleWorks, and QT Pro to Linux? Instantly Apple products will be used by thousands of knowledgeable Unix geeks, who might eventually give the mindshare that Apple needs to survive in the long run...

But I was delighted to note that Apple has recruited some top Unix talent into their fold!

Raja

linux appleworks to openoffice batch conversion

Anonymous's picture

Is there an " claris works" or appleworks version for Linux ??
Or a batch convertor to Linux Open Office??

I need one of these to be able to migrate to the linux platform!

THANK YOU

Ioanno

Re: Apple porting...

kiwipeso's picture

iPhoto isn't elegant, I've used it and it doesn't deserve porting yet, it needs to support more cameras, have an option to stop dumping copies of files after every operation you do on them and it needs to let you build a template webpage album to put files on.

Their are heaps of sites which are built from template albums, all they need to do is add the photos then build the page.

iTunes doesn't need to be ported, there are tons of opensource music apps out there.

AppleWorks is worthwhile porting as StarOffice isn't that great or easy to use.

QT Pro doesn't have enough mac users, let alone linux users of QT to make it worth porting.

I've only ever wanted QTPro to see StarWars exclusive trailers.

Re: Apple porting...

Anonymous's picture

There is QuickTime and then there is QuickTime Pro. QT lets you watch the movies, QTP lets you edit movies. you can adjust the video and auido, create slide shows and prepare video for streaming. Big difference. Lots more tools and stuff you can do. I could not live without it.(well I could, but I don't want to)

QT is free. QTP is $30. Another big difference.

Re: Great Article...

Anonymous's picture

If you want to see these apps ported to Linux, I would suggest strongly that hackers help finish the GNUstep project. GNUstep seems to be on the way to being source compatible with Apple's Cocoa APIs. If GNUstep were to become 100% compatible with Apple's Cocoa APIs, then software developers could simply compile their source for 2 different platfomrs. Just last night I downloaded GNUMail for GNUstep and compiled it BOTH under OS X AND GNUstep on Linux.

I think both Gnome and KDE are cool, but I think the real work should be done on the GNUstep desktop environment. With a 100% Cocoa compatible desktop, Linux stands the best chance of having Apple apps ported to it.

For that matter, port GNUstep to Darwin and you have a good chunk of OS X running on Intel architecture.

Andy

Re: Great Article...

Anonymous's picture

Apple needs to sell hardware to survive, so they will keep their software and APIs tied to their hardware and close to their chest as long as possible.

Too bad Loki can't shift their focus and instead write games for OSX first, and Linux second.

I'd probably consider heavily buying a new Mac...

Re: Great Article...

Doc's picture

On the one hand, I think Steve Jobs is focussed on the stuff he tends to obsess about, and where he truly is visionary: on art, design, etc. On the other hand, he's weak at taking the public lead on deep tech stuff. That's what he has Avie Tevanian for.

At a Darwin bird-of-feather (BoF) meeting this evening, I was told by one guy (who knows the parties involved, which I do not) that the deep OS stuff is all Avie's. He went to CMU, he made the decision to go with Mach, etc etc. But his absence at the show seemed conspicuous to me. Then again, one of the BoF guys said that Darwin and OS X doesn't get *really* serious as a geek OS until v10.2. Maybe that's when Avie comes out to play.

I also heard that there will likely be trouble when it comes time to sync up Darwin with modern BSD. It's tight with BSD as of 3 years ago. Question: if Steve & Avie's promise to keep current with BSD is kept, will it make everything being written now into a legacy app? I dunno, but I thought it was an interesting question.

In respect to your last line, one of the guys at the BoF remarked that Apple was scarfing up some top programmers. "He got himself hired for doing stuff like that," another guy said.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

OS X might not have a mascot but Darwin does:Hexley the Platypus, named after Darwin's assistant.

Re: A Penguin Angle on the Ox: Day One at Macworld

Anonymous's picture

Thats a great idea, except I live in a world where I have to pay cash for stuff. I end up having to pay rent, property taxes (on my home, if I own one), bills to various state sanctioned monopolies, and numerous taxes for the carbon-based animal known as a 'car' (car carbon?)

Hey Man, wake up. Linux is cool. It's awesome, it shows what can be done by a bright person with the right tools at the right time and limited fiscal responsibilities.

But ultimately, we live in a market economy where how much you contribute to the economy, for good or bad, is measured in cold cash.

Harsh, yes, reality, yes.

The idea of making 'free' code and then licensing it in a way that empowers nobody is nothing but a grandiose way of those that are wealthy enough to goof off, have fun and everything else to basically stick the finger to the rest of us.

michael@openaccess.org

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